Myth #1: Polish people are rude
I’ve thought about this long and hard. Everybody I’ve ever met who’s been to Poland has wrestled with this question. And almost everybody thinks it’s kind of true and kind of not true. This is the current state of my understanding:
The truths
1. Polish people in shops, businesses, and government departments often appear rude to foreigners visiting Poland (not to mention to other Polish people).
2. Polish people are extremely polite and hospitable in private social situations.
3. Polish people sometimes are, in fact, extremely rude because they like being extremely rude.
In other words, there is no simple answer to the question ‘Are Polish people rude?’ Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not. The problem arises because the occasions on which they are rude and the occasions on which they are not rude do not correspond to the expectations of the average Western visitor to Poland. This is known as culture shock.
The reasons
1. Polish people working in shops, businesses, and government departments at the ‘customer relations’ level are usually poorly paid and utterly disinterested in the public perception of the institution they work for. In these situations they tend to feel powerless and undervalued. It’s not difficult to understand why these people fail to interact with customers in a positive and smiley way. I wouldn’t, and neither would you.
2. The woman behind the post office counter who treats you as if you were slightly less important than the dirt she wipes off her shoes would, if you met her in a private social situation, be a paradigm of politeness and hospitality. The private and the public spheres are strictly but unconsciously divided in the Polish mind, If a person is introduced to you by a friend you treat them with genuinely impeccable politeness and generosity. If you happened to meet the same person in the guise of a customer or passerby on the street you treat them as if they were a potential child molester.
3. And this is the ace in the hole that adds spice to the issue. Rudeness is an art form in Poland. Polish people take great, but secret, delight in the devastating insult or social slight. It appeals to the essentially black nature of Polish humor. In other words, sometimes Polish people are rude because it’s extremely funny to be rude. Just about every Polish film regarded as a ‘classic’ features endless scenes of incredible and extremely funny rudeness. After many years I have to admit, it IS in fact devilishly funny.
Other factors:
Most Polish people are suspicious of unmotivated friendliness. An American style big smile and hello from a person in a store does not make them feel welcome, it makes them suspicious. (After so many years here I feel the same way).
The lady in the post office is being paid (sort of) to do a specific job which does not include helping the befuddled (Polish or foreign). Her job is to peform certain services for people who know what they’re doing. How she treats those who don’t (yet) know the system is totally irrelevant in terms of how she’ll be evaluated and her chances (if any) of advancement. In Poland, kindness and consideration are traditionally personal decisions, the perogative of individuals and not dictated by position.
As always in Poland, familiarity breeds concern. Always shop at the same stores and/or buy vegetables from the same people at the market and as they get accustomed to you, they’ll show what signs of concern they can (such as warning you off unfresh items you just requested or asking whether you want them to set aside part of an incoming shipment for you or even letting you pay the next time if you’re suddently short on cash).
Polish people like noisy arguments as a way of passing the time or getting at the truth. They mostly admire those who express themselves frankly and with flair. The main goal is not to be insulting/rude per se, but to express your opinion on any given matter as clearly and forcefully as possible. While this may involve delivering devastating insults, no one expects said insults to have any great affect on those on the receiving end and arguments usually end suddenly with no clear resolution (this is hard for Americans who, once engaged, find it difficult to disengage from arguments, even ones they don’t care about until they’ve ‘won’).
Michael: Extremely interesting points.
Unmotivated friendliness
As a Brit I am equally suspicious of the clearly false US-style customer-relations grin. However, I get the feeling that the Polish attitude in these situations is not neutral (which is what I’m used to), it’s downright confrontational. Given the working conditions of these people though I’m not in the least bit surprised by it.
Post office lady
I agree absolutely. Why should she care? I sure as hell wouldn’t in her position.
Familiarity breeds concern
I think this is kind off what I was trying to say in point 2. In a personal relationship Polish people are as polite and hospitable as possible. I have no argument with that point. The contrast I would point to (for what it’s worth) is the point that in the UK a shopkeeper who didn’t know you personally would probably engage in the same kind of favoritism much more quickly.
Noisy arguments
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The heated argument laced with meaningless insults is a stable of Polish culture in the same way that the whispered gossip laced with unnecessary politeness is the staple of British culture. I get it, I really do.
Would it be rude to notice Freud slipped through you?
Quote: “it’s kind off true and kind of not true”
Either case, untrue :)
I’m not sure any of this is picking up on the tendency to go out of their way to get themselves into a position where an argument is possible. Unless this is driven by the fact that they like an argument?
It is most noticeable on the road, when people will actually speed up and manoeuvre so that they can be in the right place at the right time to honk and start shouting at you whereas if everyone had just carried on as they were, there would be no problem.
Similar things happen on foot, too.
Darth: Just posted a comment thanking you for your vigilance, but it seems to have disappeared. So thanks again :)
Sorry to diverge from the point, but “humor”, without a U?
One is US spelling, one is British. Sigh. And I thought that being an ESL teacher would actually at least help people.
Actually that should be: “One spelling is correct, the other is British.”
Whoa! Whoa! Hold on a second………
Tozznok: The awful truth is that the automatic spell checker on WordPress is set to US English and, although I’m inclined to use British English spellings in general, I usually have to use US spellings in my work so I kind of default to US spelling on here. It ain’t pretty but that’s the truth.
In shops I find that a little perseverence is needed before the indifference / apparent rudeness is slowly replaced by normal helpfulness. Post office workers are a lost cause. No amount of perseverence will help here although I find that the younger ones are better – less institutionalised presumably – and that he Post Office is improving.
A favourite opening gambit of rude Poles (in shops, banks, post offices etc) is the blank stare. e.g. you approach the cloak room attendant with your bag in hand. The cloakroom attendant looks at you, saying nothing. You are forced / provoked to say “this is a cloakroom, isn’t it?” The attendant replies triumphantly / witheringly/ scornfully, depending on the mood, “We don’t accept bags.”
Tozznok, there is no point in picking on an American (or as some people prefer to call, international) spelling. Is it in anyway related to this Poland myth discussed here? I can imagine that you have a very busy time whenever you are on the net…
island1, it wasn’t an ‘awful’ truth as such. Anyway, I agree with you on the unmotivated friendliness point. I general am very suspicious, but when confronted with something like the Polish attitude, I tend to smile a lot ans try to be nice. A bit of a split personality here.
Valerie: Thanks for the comments. I assume Tozznok had his/her tongue in his/her cheek. To be honest I have some sympathy with American spelling, at least it’s slightly less absurd than British spelling.
island1, I assume I didn’t get the joke. I hope Tozznok wasn’t questioning your claim as a Brit.
I just think that, over the internet, it’s too easy for people to make absurd little comments, or be unduly critical, like me. And I don’t want people to think that our country is inhabited by snobby spellers. As Britons, I think we should know about the little frustrations and amusements caused by spell-checkers and text editors that use the US system by default, and thus could be more understanding. I travel outside Europe frequently, and believe that picking on such differences doesn’t help understanding other cultures and is not in line with the values promoted by this blog. But chances are that it was merely a casual comment from Tozznok.
By the by, a friend who works in Shanghai and recently visited Macau had reported similar observations. He thinks your number 1 reason is the case. However, as far as I know, Macau is a place where economy depends heavily on a tourism that consists mainly of pleasure seekers of greed, lust or gluttony, and that might have a depressing effect on the local people. So maybe we can’t draw a parallel between the two places.
It is…and it isn’t funny. Sometimes it can be damn right infuriating!
Simple solution? Join the club and be rude back to them!! ;-)
The Poles are nice.I am Polish and I am very nice to others;=)
specially foreigners , want them to see our country in a nice,friendly colours
we shoul not generalize because in every country you can meet rude mean people
and dont mind my english…probably made plenty mistakes ;-)
You wrote:
“Rudeness is an art form in Poland. Polish people take great, but secret, delight in the devastating insult or social slight.”
You also said that it is devilishly funny. I disagree. This rudeness is a holdover from Communist days. And I’m sure you wouldn’t find it so funny and hilarious if you were the butt of the insults, lies, or rudeness.
The funny rudeness you extoll is merely a form of jealousy and a feeling of inadequacy. Successful people in Poland, as elsewhere, don’t waste their time or energy on being rude and insulting.
Mercutio: What makes you think I haven’t been the butt of insults, lies, and rudeness?
I disagree, it’s nothing to do with communism. That’s just the easy answer to everything. There are plenty of ex-communist countries where the people have a completely different character.
Dear Island1:
Yes, the younger people from the newer generation in “ex-communist” countries are not as rude as the older people from the older generation. The younger people didn’t have to live thru the fraud of the Marxist system. Their lives weren’t destroyed by the lies of Communism. How can you dismiss the Communist regime so easily and act as if it didn’t affect people’s behavior?
Living under communism is horrible—and rudeness, social slights, practical jokes, black humor, insulting remarks were all ways with which to deal with the terrible situation.
People like you, Island1, act as if there never was a thing called Communism in Poland or anywhere else. Why is that? Is it denial?
I just came back from a holiday in wroclaw and can honestly say that most of the poles I met there did actually go out of there way to make you feel about as welcome as a dose of syphallis!!! This was especially true of the males, who sporting there identical millitary No2 style haircuts made you feel like you were running the gauntlet every time you stepped into a bar/restaraunt. My friend and I were actually told whilst in a bar that we were going to be stabbed for speaking to a couple of polish women!!! We were not rude, loud or obnoxious. The guy didn’t even know the girls we were speaking to!!! I thought it must have been a joke till I noticed what he had in his hand. This may not be true of everywhere in poland but where I live in the U.K there is a large polish community and they do not get threatened in this manner.
poland can suck my balls
If talking to a Polish girl can get me stabbed…. What’s going to happen to me??? I married one and hang with her in Wrocław bars often. I guess what I’m trying to say is……Don’t be such a pussy. One punk with a little knife does not make a city bad for meeting girls.
Mercutio,
If I had to work in a Polish grocery store under any government, for 1,200 złoty per month, I would go out of my way to be rude and aloof to the needs of customers. And we all know that there were never really any communists in Poland, just “actors” trying to survive 45 years of occupation.
congratulations! perfect understanding here. i am really impressed unless you are polish ;-))
I have wrestled with myself over this ‘dilemma’ for many a year now. It’s just a facade however, because i know the answer, i just don’t like facing up to it. Why…… because my wife is Polish, my adopted family is Polish, most of my friends are now Polish, and i live in Poland. I also don’t want to be seen as a miserable sod!
Broadly speaking, i think what us westerners portray as ‘rudeness’ is a character trait that is culturally ingrained into the Polish population. Seen as rude behaviour by westerners, it’s nothing of the sort to Poles. Or is it, perhaps that’s what we should be debating here?
Do Poles know they are being rude and are just too ashamed/stubborn/proud to admit it, or could it be that us westerners just cannot tune into this part of the Polish character?
We are extremely rude. Bottom line is almost every Pole has got a chip on his/hers shoulder. We need to chill out a bit , but it’s not easy when cops arrest you for the smallest amount of weed
OMG. I love it:
1. Polish people can’t naturally understand the “American attitude” and a stuck smile attitude. Even if they learn it, it doesn’t come natural for them. While visiting western countries it is at first flattering and awesome, but later the question arises: why, why of why being so artificial and untrue to yourself.
2. and more important “Rudeness is an art form in Poland.”
I work in movie/TV production (which means facing absurd situations on daily basis whatever you work in Poland or anywhere in the world) and it basically means you have to deal with all different sorts of people all over the country from farmers to high business executives at once in order to reach your goal i.e. shooting 1 day on a chicken farm with actors covered all in chicken feathers rolling in a deep snow.
What I find extremely funny (and why I still do for life what I do), what I learned after a few years working in the business (it wasn’t very easy though) is the simple wisdom “Rudeness is an art form in Poland.” But you can brake it easily with a dose of your own politeness, sense of absurd humor and understanding people. Understanding the rule is making you one of the players in the game, even if you are not naturally born quarreler .
Meanwhile I have this bar, which is totally shabby, on Plac Zbawiciela in Warsaw, which I visit just because of this one lady who runs the bar there (and because PIWO is really cheap as for Warsaw Srodmiescie). She is sooooo rudeee, I can’t help but to go there for one more PIWO. Since a year I have been going there multiply times, giving little gifts to the lady (like a flower or Christmas chocolate Santa) and she has never changed her attitude from “professional rudeness” on the same level as always. And I find it precious. Like I have never met her before. It just give this little something to the whole atmosphere of the place. Does it make me strange? Hmm I start to wonder after your topic, if Im more Polish than I thought I am.
The bar you mentioned is called “Corso”, I believe. It falls into “obsraniec” category. And yes, when it comes to rudeness, this lady is second to none.
Well Corso falls into this category. But I actually ment Carino, which is Corso’s older tween sister. Carino is probably 10 times worse then Corso in category od rudness and smell
I never noticed how pleasant and friendly people were in shops and business in Ireland until I moved to Poland a couple of years ago,It was a severe culture shock to me when I asked for something in a shop with a big friendly smile only to receive a dead pan bored expression in return, I’ll keep smiling it makes me feel more Human.
The rudeness of Poles is, as you wrote, an art form. It’s incredible. The irony (and hypocrisy) of it is what i find most striking, What you also wrote about private meetings when ‘guests are treated as god’ is true as well. I can’t help but think anytime I’m a guest and thus treated in an almost absurdly formal and over-the-top gracious way….that these same hosts are grade A jackasses to nearly everyone they encounter in everyday life. It’s a paradox that I find little charm in…since it’s root is basically dishonest. So, ‘If you’re in my house or a friend of a friend of a friend, well you deserve to be treated with top shelf dignity and respect. If not, well then let me introduce you to my true nature which is a cold, dead, stare, a total lack of social etiquette, and my unique gaze of borderline hatred and resentment that you occupy the same planet that I do”. This, in one of the most ‘christian’ country on earth? Witam! It’d all be true comedy (and actually on a good day it is) if I didn’t live in here.
I think all westerners nailed the thing about polish rudeness. And guess what; each time i come back to my home country i feel it the same way. There’s no fun here for me though it’s rather sad. I think that this behavior is indeed an inheritance from the communist times but i think another 2 or 3 decades and poland will be cool. I think the country needs more exposure to different cultures and i guess it’s starting its multicultural voyage now.